The Lightning Room with Cheryl Maddalena

 

 

 

Interview by Diana Clarke

 

Poet and psychologist Cheryl Maddalena placed herself across the historical divide from Marilyn Monroe and called it a mirror. Read her poem, “Marilyn,” in the May issue, then decide who Norma Jean really is.

 

1. Marilyn Monroe (or at least her pop-cultural image) is so ubiquitous. How did you find yourself ready to take on that cultural weight and make it new?

I wrote this poem some time ago, when I was taking a linguistics class. Apparently, as related by my two professors, in linguistics school the students would passionately argue in the hallways about the which would be more correct: “I dreamed I was Marilyn Monroe, and I kissed me,” or “I dreamed I was Marilyn Monroe, and I kissed myself.” Obviously I felt strongly about the first choice! And I also realized that in my professors’ version, students were imagining being kissed by Marilyn Monroe – completely different from my experience of the idea, which was of two Marilyns.

2. I loved your incorporation of the autoerotic (“while under the table/I kept squeezing/my adorable knee. I simply couldn’t keep my hands/off me”). How does the speaker (and maybe, if you feel like broaching it, the poet) relate to Marilyn as an symbol of desirable femininity?

For me, one of the most poignant aspects of Marilyn is how she was so unanimously desired by others, but never seemed to truly desire herself. I loved the idea that, if she was split in two (or doubled) she could finally enjoy how wonderful she was to the rest of us.

3. There’s also a lot of food/consumption in this poem, from classic diner food to “the taste of nothingness.” I feel like there must be something in here about grease, Americana, and performing femininity. What nourishes us? How to we choose what of our culture to swallow?

Thank you for bringing in the idea of “Americana,” even though I hadn’t thought of it in those terms. It is so interesting to me how symbols and stories become separated from their origins and become something else – like how the person Norma Jeane became invisible behind the persona/symbol of Marilyn, who has so many meanings for us. In terms of what nourishes us, culturally, I really don’t know. It seems like we have to keep readjusting, as we grow and learn and develop, doesn’t it? The symbols change their meaning as we change our relationships to them.

4. You begin this poem with a mirror-image and end with a mirror. You begin with closeness–kissing, touching—and end with running away, with space made by ellipses. How did you arrive at that structure?

Well, the first line was given to me. Then I had to find out what happened next. For Marilyn, it seems like it was impossible for her to accept her own self as valuable, not just as a reflection of the desires of others… But I hope for more for the rest of us.

5. So you’re also a psychologist—how does that aspect of your expertise play into how you observe, think, and write about people and cultural ideas?

I think being a poet informs my work as a psychologist more than the other way around. I do think a lot about what might be helpful for the people I see, and that finds its way into my poems. Both roles feel related to each other, in that they are about expression, identity, and the value of a person’s perspective.

6. What do you order when you go to a diner?

Coffee! And orange juice. And water. After that, it really varies, but usually includes bacon.